Amy: Well I have Rachel Mercer with me here today, and I am so excited to have you join us Rachel!

Rachel: Thanks I appreciate you welcoming me and having me on the show!

Amy: To give all of our listeners a little background on Rachel and how we know each other, Rachel moved to the location that I am in–Rochester Minnesota–how many years ago was it, Rachel?

Rachel: Oh, it was eight years ago, I think, or thereabout… No! It was longer than that. That would be about ten now! I’m losing track of time, as it turns out.

Amy: It’s been a while! But Rachel came to Rochester with her husband Ryan, and she was a resident doctor at Mayo Clinic here in our town. I still remember the day that Rachel’s husband Ryan came to Church, and, as he was leaving Church that day, he stopped and we visited for a moment, and we got talking about marriage things. I found out Ryan and Rachel’s heart for marriage ministry and they found out our heart for that too! And Rachel was working that day, actually, but he said, “I’ve gotta get my wife as soon as she has a day off and bring her here to meet you guys!” It’s just been a great connection ever since then, and a lot of fun!

Rachel, I don’t think I’ve told you this before I asked you to do this interview today, but you are one of the reasons that I’m starting this podcast you’re a big part of my inspiration in this! I’m sure you remember the day we were having a ladies event and you came up for prayer. The guest speaker prayed for you and then I started talking to you right after she prayed for you, and we set up a time to go out for coffee. And at that coffee you said to me–and I don’t think you mind all the ladies that listen to this hearing hearing about this–but you said, “my husband wants to have children right now, but I’m in residency and I’m putting in so many hours and I don’t know how I can be a resident and have children at this point until I’m done with residency.” 

So it was just kind of this conversation of how do you get through being a family person, the whole idea of not just your marriage but becoming mom too, and you’re in residency and looking at fellowship after that? And so I remember we both shed tears that day.

Rachel: Yes! And it’s hard because when you feel God leading you into places that are unknown and you know that God’s leading you there but no one around you is doing it, you’re just desperate and I was just desperate in that moment to say, “can you help me hear from the Lord? I just need Him to reassure me that He has me down this path.” 

Because–I don’t know if I shared with you that day–going into the residency program I was in at Mayo Clinic, it had been ten years before one of their female residents had gotten pregnant and so there was this weight on me to say, “God, I have to hear from You because I feel the pressure of the world against me in this right now, and if I don’t have You and I know Your voice clearly then it’s gonna be very hard for me to step out.” And so you were a big part of that and in helping me trust the Lord.

Amy: Well I remember, in that conversation, one thing that you said that really stuck out to me. You said–and I think both of us were crying at this moment–you said, “I feel like half of a doctor and half of a family woman.” 

And I think there are so many female professionals that feel that way! Then you said, “I’m a family woman by just being a wife right now, but to be wife AND mom; that’s like DOUBLE DUTY!” And then I remember you made this comment–now, Rachel’s dad is a physician of many years. He was a family practitioner and you (Rachel) grew up in not that big of a town, right?

Rachel: A town in Oklahoma of twelve hundred. A town of twelve hundred.

Amy: So he was the doctor of the town, and Rachel’s mom was a stay at home mom. And I remember the comment you made was, “I want to be as great of a doctor as my dad has been, and I want to be as great of a mom as my mom was to me growing up. So how can I be excellent at both of these and have both? It’s like chasing two rabbits!”

So there was this turmoil of “how do I do this?”

Rachel: Exactly! And how do you do this well where you feel like there’s even time left over for yourself? I think that’s one of the major things professional women have trouble with, that dichotomy that you just outlined: “And yet, is there anything left over for me and how do I make sure that there’s room for me as well?”

Because if you’re going full-throttle at both of those it can seem at many times that there’s just very little left. Who are you actually in the mirror, you know? And how do you go about still pursuing your relationship with the Lord when so much goes out of you in your professional life AND your motherhood?

Amy: Right. And, you know, there are so many women–and especially young women–that are in the place that you were in back then. I think so many times you don’t know who to talk to.

Because, in the professional world, the higher up you rise the more it’s discouraged: not to have too close of relationships with people, or not to bring too much friendship into the workplace. And so who do you go to?

Rachel: Right! And in the Church world it can be very difficult because, being a professional woman, what you can experience is the feeling that others are just intimidated. And all you wanna feel is connection and points for how to be a mom. But just carrying that badge of your degree sometimes can make relationships so difficult. So I was so appreciative that day when you said, “absolutely! Let’s go to coffee,” because I just needed an honest conversation with someone that would listen.

Amy: Well I’m going to back up just a little bit because we kind of got right into things. But I want everyone to know just a little bit about your background. Tell them your professional position, your family, what does that look like?

Rachel: I am an ophthalmologist. I got my medical training and undergraduate at Texas Tech University & Health Science Center, and then the match brought me to Mayo Clinic–where our paths crossed–for ophthalmology. I completed my residency there and then a fellowship year at Iowa during neural ophthalmology. And then all things went full-circle and we landed in Nebraska for my husband’s job, and we had three kids along the way! Our first was during my first year of ophthalmology residency, my second was during my fellowship year, and then my third was just after I finished my first year in my practice.

Amy: But it all worked! Somehow it all worked!

Rachel: It all worked! I’m not sure how many hours of sleep were in all of that, but we made it through and I’m a survivor and we are thriving!

Amy: Aww! That is awesome to hear. I’m curious–just so everyone knows a little bit more about you–what is your personality type?

Rachel: I am CD on the DISC test, and then I am a type-five with a six wing on Enneagram 

Amy: So how does that all play out in the workplace and at home for you, I’m curious? 

Rachel: It can be quite the struggle. I found my Enneagram type later on, after I was in my first year of partnership in my practice, and that actually was probably the biggest time I realized “oh my gosh! There’s not this eternal flaw that I have with me,” because, as a five, we are very energy-focused. And I didn’t realize this at the time, but so much energy was outpouring, going into practice, and going into my kids that I was just in a frazzled state on the inside, and I couldn’t figure it out. And so finally when the Lord showed me this, I realized I had language that I could talk to my husband Ryan and others about. 

So when I needed help it was okay for me to ask for help and not always constantly feel like I was being drained. Because with young kids, as many of our listeners would know, as soon as you hit the door the needs start and they don’t stop. They don’t have the time frame where you can mentally prepare for the blowout diaper or someone sick or all of that. So it just became quite the struggle, and I was really grateful to find that wisdom and to have the Lord use the Holy Spirit to really guide me into some new depths of learning about myself.

Amy: I find that there’s so much of our personality type and how it plays into who we are. Like you said, you thought you were flawed until you found out your Enneagram type and then you were like, “this isn’t a flaw. It’s just the way I function.” It helped you to function better after you understood it.

Rachel: Yes! It was just that reality saying, “God is my strength in my weakness.” And I finally realized what I thought was this flaw was just this weakness that I needed to ask Him to really breathe life into and to give me new ways to deal with who He created me as already. 

So it wasn’t something that needed to be repaired. It was just something that I needed to learn how to kinda recreate and refocus, and new language I could use to talk about. So it just created a whole different conversation between my husband and I; how to look at my kids and know that when I looked at my kids with all these needs I realized, “oh my gosh! Okay, I can see myself and I hear myself and I can see when I’m starting to get to my depletion state.” That’s when I started to feel flawed, but instead I could say, “this is my depletion state, and this is when I need to ask the Lord for help.”

Amy: I love that! That’s good. Just recognize that paying attention to your feelings and recognizing you’ve gotta make a connection with God here. Everything is going to be all right until I get to a place where I can really refuel.

Rachel: Exactly! That’s exactly right.

Amy: What does the typical day look like for you, Rachel? Let’s just say it’s a weekday, not a weekend. Walk us through your routine. You made the comment that you feel like you’re in a better place than you used to be, so walk us through that “better place.” What does the day look like, in the morning especially?

Rachel: In the morning we wake up (if you’re looking for absolute details it’s around 6:00am), spend some quick time with the Lord just reading scriptures. Depending on if the kids are up or not I will go quickly make breakfast–I am quick at finding things that are easily made–so I’ll go set up breakfast for them. In my mind I’ll make a plan because we pack lunches everyday. My kids have gone to daycare since they were babies. They’ve just gotten used to cold lunches, so we pack cold lunch everyday. Then I get myself ready pretty quickly–within thirty minutes–and the kids are out the door usually within an hour to an hour-and-a-half, and I’m either dropping them off or just dropping off my son, and then we have a full work day. The work day starts around 8:00am and finishes really close to 5:00pm with a typical lunch break in between at some time. And then it just depends on what kids’ activities are. I’m usually home with a commute by 5:30pm and quickly doing dinner or picking the kids up. And then it’s just all of the school activities that all mom’s do: trying to coordinate who has spelling words to do, who has homework, who has projects. So that fills our evening time. 

We’re very strategic about always putting the kids down for bed. I think that’s a really big connection point for me with the kids where I feel like it’s a really good one-on-one time with them. We’ll be praying, we talk about their day. A lot of times I find myself cuddling with all the kids in one bed, putting the youngest then back in his bed, and so usually that’s about by 9:00pm. I’ll be kinda crawling out of their bed and then it gives me about an hour at night to pick up the house and clean things up. Then maybe thirty minutes for myself where I’m either reading a book, or sometimes I’ll catch even just the early part of the movie. 

Honestly, I just like peace and quiet. When I’m not taking in so much all the time it gives me time to process my day and things and thoughts and feelings that I’ve put away, either from difficult conversations at work or even difficult conversations with kids because kids issues come up, and it gives me that prayer time to just really kind of finally release it all. 

Amy: So, in that whole schedule, where do you find time with your husband?

Rachel: Usually in that evening time. Actually we typically go to bed together around probably ten o’clock and so we’ll probably lay in bed together for about thirty minutes talking, and then I also find that we like to call each other when I’m commuting to work after I dropped off kids. We’ll have an early-morning conversation just in the car. Fifteen, twenty, or thirty minutes. It’s just that connection point where we’re focusing on ourselves and our relationship; things that the Lord is kind of bringing up in our hearts. The commute time has actually worked out really well! 

Amy: That’s a great use of time! I love that. What about weekends? What do your weekends typically look like? 

Rachel: We have been really careful about not getting our kids involved in too many activities, because I think–as a professional mom and as my husband also has a business that he runs–weekends are our time to reconnect and refocus.  We love our Saturday mornings that we can all spend together. We have done activities in the mornings, but we’re pretty careful and strategic about making sure the kids can do something kind of within an hour or two of each other–whether that be swim lessons, gymnastics, or something like that–and then we just leave our days open. Also, I would say as a mom with young kids, starting to teach them to become responsible for a lot of the daily duties of running a house.

I took the time as soon as my youngest was three and just made her part of the process; teaching her how to unload the dishwasher; teaching her how to pair socks together; fold clothes. Even though it was difficult for a very long time, the kids now, ages ten, seven, and five, are doing their own laundry.

So it’s those little things that have really helped with the responsibilities of running a house, and help on the weekends because then I feel like we have time together. And we’ll probably do a family night in there where we’ll take them to do maybe some activity, but a lot of times we’re all just hanging out playing and just restful and peaceful on a Saturday. By Sunday we serve at Church, and do a full Church day. So we haven’t truly said it’s Sabbath time, but I would definitely say Saturdays are our time to say we need time to regroup and refocus and just allow ourselves to take naps if we need to, and not feel like there’s something pushing like, “go go go,” like the week can feel.

Amy: Now, I wanna bring up something, for all the women listening, about friendships. Because often times–and you tell me your thoughts on this–but oftentimes as a professional in the medical field or like my role in ministry we are told by other women who are in these positions that we have to be watchful about getting too close to people. Because, for example, in my role in ministry people have to move a lot. So there can be the sadness in a friendship moving away or different things like that. Also, there are confidentiality things where you have to be watchful because someone may tell you something confidential–same for you as a physician–and you have to be watchful not to repeat things to people around you, you know what I mean? In certain roles you have to be a very private person. You can’t be repeating anything that someone has said to you because of breach of confidentiality, and in that you can get so into that mindset that you almost don’t gravitate towards friendships anymore. 

I was speaking with a friend who recently took a role that’s very upper-echelon in the medical field–overseeing a number of physicians–and she said that in that role her superior, who is also a female, gave her the advice not to make any friends at work. “It’ll just serve you better in this role.” “It’s just going to be easier if you don’t make friends at work.” “Of course be cordial to everyone, but no deep connections.” And it can be so much that way in certain roles that you just get to the place where you almost don’t make time for friendships. Or maybe some women are even afraid of having friendships thinking, “who can I trust that if I accidentally cry in front of this person? Are they going to judge me and think I’m not as professional?” You know what I’m getting at here.

In all of that, YOU were an amazing example to me because I really didn’t know what to expect in my ministry role. And I think, when you and I met, I had been in this role for about four or five years. I had SOME close friends from before I was in this role in other States, but not a lot of real close friends here locally. And you came in and you exemplified friendship to me in a way that I’ve had few people do. Part of it was probably that you were hitting my love language. Just to give our friends listening an example, I remember one of the first things you ever did one day is you came up to me and you gave me a CD, and said, “I just made this CD for you and it has some of my favorite songs on it and I thought you would enjoy it too.” It had some Christian music, it had some country music that was just fun country music, and with that you gave me a bag that had several snacks from Trader Joe’s. And you said, “these are some of my favorite songs and some of my favorite snacks! I just wanted to give you these ’cause I was thinking about you yesterday and I just want to do something to make you smile,” or something like that. That just blessed my heart so much, and that became a normal thing for you during the few years that you were living here. I remember that, from time to time, you would just bring me a bag of your favorite snacks from Trader Joe’s or from some other store (we all love Trader Joe’s here). 

I remember another time even you and Ryan–now for all of our friends listening, Ryan, Rachel’s husband, he’s from Texas and can he make stakes on the grill. Oh my goodness he’s the grill master! I think his dad has won awards in Texas for that, and to win an award in Texas you have to be the upper echelon of steak grillers, so Ryan has learned from the best–called us one day, right before we were having a big event at the Church, and you said, “Ryan just made some steaks and we made a meal for you guys and we’re going to drop it off. We don’t wanna stay or anything, we’re just dropping it off for your family.” And Shaun and I just thought ‘oh my goodness! These two are so sweet!’ And of course we both have a high love language of gifts, which includes food, and you guys kept hitting that over and over, and we’re thinking, ‘these two are amazing!’ 

But you kept going out of your way to show friendship to us, and you especially towards me, and I thought that was interesting because, when I met you, you were a very introverted person. I’m curious how you navigate that now in the world you’re in. You’re a partner with a number of other physicians in this practice. How do you navigate friendship now? Any advice you can give anyone? Because I think there are a lot of lonely professional women out there. 

Rachel: Absolutely! I think first you just always have to be your authentic self, never really trying to prove anything and knowing that the path that the Lord has brought you on speaks volumes in itself, so you never have to show that card, you never have to go into any relationship trying to muster up the strength to be enough. If you would take the time to be, and pursue the Lord to be your authentic self, you know how to look for other people that are also authentic. 

Now sometimes I definitely have done those things and never heard anything from somebody. And do my feelings get hurt? Oh, absolutely! But I just have to realize sometimes this is gonna stick and sometimes it’s not. And just to know that eventually you’re gonna find the one or two friends that the Lord will use. So maybe it’s not looking at somebody that’s in your same department necessarily, because there can be so many political things that we all deal with in the work world. Looking for someone outside that department to befriend, that would be a great one to start with. Just taking a little time, maybe once a month, looking for someone and saying, “hey, I’ve got this. There’s a LITTLE bit of time off. I’m gonna try to do all these things,” but also actually just set up a coffee date and say, “are there any coffee houses you’d like to go to?” And then you have to know as well that when your efforts are one way and not reciprocated–not to say every time you do something has to be reciprocated but just an acknowledgement–when people don’t actually acknowledge your effort, you can say, “all right. Let’s try again and let’s see what’s going to happen.” So that’s really been a big key in helping me figure out “Lord, who is someone that You’re opening a door to to friendship and one that may go deep, versus one that’s just gonna probably stay superficial?” 

You were exactly right. I am an extroverted introvert. Really and truly, I make a lot of small talk all day long with hundreds of patients a week. I’m usually seeing about forty patients a day–sometimes around thirty-five–somewhere in there, but it’s enough small talk in a day that I don’t really wanna make small talk with people when I go and spend my time.  So it’s just those little pieces of saying, “hey! What are your kids involved in? What are you doing? Are there ministries you’re involved in?” When people are willing to share just a little piece more you’re like ‘okay, this is someone else that I may want to try again. Let’s see that path.’ 

When people actually acknowledge your effort, you know ‘they’re seeing me.’ 

Something really different about you as well is you knew that, if I was making an effort, you valued that in me. Because you make sure to comment, you make sure to give me a big hug the next time, and you make sure to have that appreciation and gratitude. When it’s reciprocated that way, that’s when you can help your heart know that this is somebody else that potentially I can pursue again. But don’t make it so frequent that it starts stealing your schedule from your family. But at the same time just saying “okay, you know, I’m just gonna shoot em a text and say, ‘Hey, how’s your week been?’ while being a little bit mindful of those things. And I will tell you, out of the ten times you try, it may only stick once. 

And also Ryan and I–with the difference in the cultures of Texas versus the Midwest and Minnesota where it’s so family oriented–we realized people weren’t gonna be coming knocking on our door, and so at some point you have to make the effort and say, “no one’s knocking on the door. Am I willing to just open the door and say ‘Hey, why don’t you come in?’” Knowing that sometimes that makes your heart hurt more, but eventually the right person is gonna come through and if you–going back to that authentic self–if you know who you are and your value, people will add to that. And when they try to take away, they just can’t, because you already know who you are. So that’s where you have to do that work before even pursuing anyone. Because if your heart is already hurting from previous friendships or previous relationships, then you’ll just go in with that hurt and people won’t meet your expectations or they won’t say the right thing in the way you hoped they would. It’ll just add to the negativity instead of just adding value to your life.

That’s really the hard part of pursuing friendships. You actually have to do the first work of looking at yourself in the mirror saying, “are there places where I’ve been hurt so much and I’m wounded so much that I haven’t done the work yet?” Pursuing people too soon can absolutely bring more damage to that area than what a true value of friendship can bring.

Amy: That’s so true, and I think one of the biggest examples you were to me is that I knew in your residency you were putting in what fifty five sixty hours a week…

Rachel: Yeah, and then on call I would definitely hit eighty.

Amy: …And so with that the fact that you even found the time–I thought, ‘oh that’s such a creative way to show you’re thinking about someone.’ You’re at the grocery store anyway. Just pick up an extra little gift!

Rachel: That’s exactly right! 

Amy: It doesn’t take extra time.

Rachel: Instead of just buying one, buy two. And don’t make it this big extravagant thing when you’re first trying to pursue it, but you’ll find people, in conversation, they love tea and you’re like, “oh I love tea as well! I’m just gonna pick them up my favorite one and say, ‘Hey I’m, not sure if you’ve ever tried this one before, but I was at the store and thought of you, and so I just wanted to see if you might wanna try it!’”

Amy: It’s like one of those things where, even if you are doing sixty or eighty hours a week, there’s still a way to pursue friendship. It may not be a “get together and talk for a long period of time” friendship, but it’s still starting the foundation of a friendship.

Rachel: Right! You have to listen to the conversations that are happening around you. And I can’t even say I remember any specific conversation that we were having, but it was just something that I could sense. Just like you said that you read people really well, you can see people’s patterns if you observe them. “Oh they’re always drinking coffee” or “they’re always drinking this” and you just say, “Hey, I got you something last time I was out at the store!” Or they’ll be talking about their kids and you can just shoot them  a text to say, “Hey, not sure if you’ve tried this activity with your kids, but we really enjoy it!” And go maybe once a month to one of your favorite museums or something like that. You know, just a text to somebody that says, “Hey, this is something that’s fun that we do.” It just makes them realize you’re thinking about them, and it makes your connection points a lot easier.

Amy: And you are so good at what you just mentioned about listening closely. I remember one of the times you did that when you lived here. Shaun and I had mentioned to you that we were going on a little getaway to northern Minnesota for two or three days, and we were leaving the next Sunday after Church. And you showed up that Sunday with a package full of goodies and you said, “this is for you guys and the kids for snacks when you travel up North.”

And so I thought, ‘wow! She was really listening well last week!’ I didn’t even realize that we had said that within your ear shot and you were listening that closely.

Rachel: Well people will say things that you don’t realize. Just a little small glimpse; a little small window. and you go ‘oh!’ It just says that you were actually paying attention to them personally and not just passing them by. And so that really helps because–going back to that authentic self and finding authentic people–when you do that kind of connection point with someone else they will respond in a way that says ‘I was really grateful for that action towards me.’ And it helps you know that that person is potentially safe to start pursuing friendship with.

Amy: And that was such an example to us because, ever since you did that, we have done that numerous times with people when we found out they’re taking a road trip somewhere, and if we have time we’ll go and grab a bag of snacks. People just love that! It just puts a smile on their face. It’s so fun to do! We got that great example from you two.

Rachel: Aww! That’s very kind of you to say!

Amy: Now, one quick question I have for you: Being that you’re a mother of three, is there anything with your kids that you do that is just an especially big win with your kids? Maybe it’s been a busy day, but there’s something you do–you mentioned snuggling in bed before. Is there anything else like that? Something that connects you with even just one kid to hit a love language and build your bond?

Rachel Oh sure! It really depends on where your points are that you’re spending time with your kids. I think a lot of us spend more time in the car than we realize with our kids, so that is a big one for me. And I think night time, if you really make that part of your routine, can also be a connection point. So on the way to school we’ll just ask questions. I can’t even remember where I saw it but there was someone who posted, like, 100 Great Questions. So instead of saying, “how was your day?” you say, “who did you sit by at lunch today?” or “Do any of your friends have things in their lunch that you would like to have in yours?” So you have these random weird conversations with your kids, and I think that’s probably the biggest thing; to actually make the car time relational instead of just drive time. Because you’ll find that if you make conversation points with your kids then it’s a lot easier. At night they’ll start talking to you more. Or you might find that you watched a movie that the kids really enjoyed, and every movie has some kind of fun song, as a lot of kids shows do. Download it on your phone and play it in the car, and just have this little fun moment with them. 

That way you can be “Fun Mom” too, because I think as a professional woman I would say that’s a big thing I struggle with: making fun moments with the kids. Because I am so focused on making sure they get their work done, that they ate their food at dinner time, that they actually have whatever it is for the next day prepared and ready so we’re not struggling to get out the door. But if you’re not mindful of making things fun, it’ll just slip by and mom’s no longer the fun one. Instead Dad always gets to be the fun one, and I struggle with that!

Also, you need to say yes sometimes. You just NEED to say yes sometimes. There are times when you’re picking up after dinner, or you’re putting all these things away, and they’re gonna stop you and say, “Hey Mom! Come see this! Hey, Mom! Will you come play and do this?” 

I have started saying, yes, but I’ll say, “okay, but I have ten minutes. Let’s do this! Everybody, all in!” I think if you can make yourself more mindful that your kids are inviting you into their world, and actually taking the invitation and doing it with a smile when you don’t feel like it and you had a really hard day, you’re gonna find that times are more fun than you can plan for and there are times in your everyday life that can make it possible.

Amy: And over time I think as parents we realize that we look at our kids as needing us, but really we need them. We need them to bring the laughter into our life, and they teach us as much as we teach them.

Rachel: That’s exactly right! We have a little Alexa device in the kitchen, and it’s so easy! There is this game–I think the one that we’ve been playing is like Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?, and it’ll ask questions along the lines of U.S. history and global geography and so on. Just little things like that. Oh my gosh, they love it! They just love like “oh, let’s play this together!” Just make yourself be lighthearted with your kids. And it CAN be very hard as professional women, depending on what your interactions were at work–how depleting they were–that you want to say “no” to your kids in those moments and it just takes the joy out. 

And so, even going back to the question at the very beginning: why are we now in a season where it just doesn’t feel like a struggle? It’s because we’ve learned slowly over time that I need to say yes and I need to take those moments. So when they asked me to cuddle in bed, “okay! I’ve got ten minutes. Okay! I’ve got fifteen minutes.” 

Now sometimes you know you start snuggling and you’re like ‘okay I can take longer,’ but it helps if you start trying to create a little bit of a boundary around those. It makes it easier to say yes. But then I think what you’ll find is like ‘oh my gosh! This was way more fun,’ and I’ll just stay up late and I’ll get the rest of whatever I needed to be done, because you find that you’re replenished. In the moment that you don’t feel like you can say yes you end up being replenished. 

I could end up having a connection point because I take that moment with my oldest daughter and I find out she actually had a really rough day today, but she wasn’t really willing to share that until I had a moment with her doing something else. And so it’s been really strategic in helping our relationship grow with the kids.

Amy: I love that. That is awesome. Great advice, Rachel. Great advice. 

In closing a couple of quick questions for you: Do you have a favorite book–in addition to the Bible–that you would recommend to people? Something that’s really helped you in life?

Rachel: I think it’s called The Road Back to You. That’s going back to the Enneagram. That one was Suzanne Stabile. I think she’s put out actually several books on this now, and she’s very Christian-based in her approach. I would say learning your Enneagram type, for myself, and learning that weakness point, and knowing now that when I start feeling pressure and how I start acting when I’m under that pressure. I now can recognize it when I didn’t for so many years. And so for so many years I was going to the Lord and saying, “what in the world is wrong with me?” like we said earlier. Now I finally can recognize it, can pray accordingly, and can move past it much quicker.

So it wasn’t necessarily one book, because it’s been several. And podcasts just like this, where  I’ve been able to learn more about myself. That has really helped me react differently, know what I need to ask for help, and just build my relationships better. So that would be what I would say.

Amy: Okay! And if you could go back to your twenty or twenty five year old self and have a talk with her, is  there anything that would maybe help her to have fewer pain points or just stress less along the course of the journey that you’ve had thus far? What would you say to her? 

Rachel: I would say, “Go through life with an open hand.” I think, as many professional women, we are so in control and so planning that when life wants to give you lemons–maybe it’s a little bit too cliché–but at the same time, when there were so many pressure points and there was change and curveballs that I was trying to hold on to life instead of just releasing it with an open hand. And knowing that, when you’re in the Lord’s will and you’re praying through it, God will really direct your path in a way that you never thought would be possible. And just hang on to that. Just say you can have faith through those moments. 

It would have helped me be a lot less stressed when life took some major turns that I was not expecting, to just read through it and to be maybe a better version of myself during that time.

Amy: That’s so true, and in your journey there have been so many curveballs. I remember you and Ryan saying to us–kind of towards the close of your time here in Rochester–you said, “you know, when we found out that my match was Rochester for residency we were both so in shock over that, and we just thought ‘Lord, this is gotta be a mistake. We don’t wanna go up to cold Minnesota.’ And yet now,” you two said, “we can see why God brought us here, and this was so meant to be a part of our journey.”

Rachel: Agreed! Exactly! So when your life takes turns and you don’t know why, just breathe deep and know the Lord has a plan and that He’s making it work out for your good. 

I had heard the scriptures growing up. I knew what they kind of meant, theologically, but when you’re actually going through it, if you’ll cling onto them, it will really help you come out the other side unscathed and more beautiful in the end. Right? When the pressure goes up and the heat goes higher the gold comes out more pure. So knowing that there has to be those times where you grow, for the Lord to really get you to the point where He’s asking you to go, it’s worth it. And it was so worth it. Rochester was such a wonderful place for us to be for those four years!

Amy: Well we loved having you here, and we’re so blessed by that and our continued friendship!

Rachel, thank you so much for visiting with us today. I know everyone has enjoyed listening to you and I always enjoy our chats and time that we get to catch up and talk. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Rachel: Yes! It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much!