[Amy]

I am here with Heather Cruz and she is a friend of mine from our church and she is a local businesswoman and professional. And so, Heather, will you tell us a little bit about you? What does your family look like?

Are you married? How long? Kids, ages, all of that.

[Heather]

Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Yeah, my name is Heather Cruz. I am 32 years old.

I work as a mental health clinician. I’m an LPCC, so clinical counselor. So, I carry a caseload of amazing clients and do DBT and prolonged exposure treatment.

So, both are pretty intensive. One is to treat trauma symptoms and PTSD and the other is to help support people who maybe are experiencing really intense behavioral and emotional difficulties. So, between running the agency and carrying a caseload, work keeps me pretty busy.

[Amy]

And you have a number of other clinicians that work with you, correct? Yes. How many people do you have working on your staff team?

[Heather]

Yeah, so there are 18 of us and then we typically take on two clinical interns as well that we’re teaching and training. So, anywhere between 18 and 20 right now with room to grow in our practice too. Yeah, yeah.

We were very blessed. We have a wonderful team. I couldn’t ask for any better.

Yeah, and then in addition to that, I am a wife and a mom, which is my favorite roles of all. So, I’ve got an incredible husband who is so supportive and loving and I have twin boys who are one. So, if I look tired, it’s because I am.

[Amy]

I love it. Tell us how you met your husband. I love this.

[Heather]

Oh, so, John, my husband, he is a ballroom dancer and I enjoy ballroom dancing as well and he was going to teach a salsa class and was looking for a partner and I was recommended to be his dance partner to teach. We were to teach and the rest is history. We fell in love and, yeah, have this wonderful life.

[Amy]

That’s awesome. I was at your wedding back in 2015, correct? And these two did the most amazing, you would have thought they were on Dancing on the Stars wedding dance.

It was awesome. So, hopefully you have that recorded. So, her husband is a man of many talents as well.

[Heather]

He is a black belt in like six, three or six, I don’t even know, multiple things that end in “do.” He’s very, very good at what he does. He has hopkido, I think, and something else.

I don’t remember. He’s a three third degree black belt.

[Amy]

So, he’s a ninja.

[Heather]

He is. He is. I love it.

He’s very sneaky. In a good way.

[Amy]

Awesome. Well, give us a little background on you. Now, you told us that you’re a mental health therapist. How many hours a week do you put in on average and how many patients do you see per week usually?

[Heather]

So, I’ve cut down on how many clients I see. You know, when I started in with the role of running the practice as well as seeing clients, I was probably seeing 17 clients and co-running the business and that was a lot. And praise God, I’ve been able to cut down.

So, right now I see about eight clients a week and I run one to two skills groups. So, DBT skills groups. But I’m very blessed.

You know, being able to run the practice has allowed me to make my own schedule and so I’m very fortunate with that where, you know, I’m in the office Monday through Wednesday and they’re busy days and then Thursday is business work. Getting in as much as I can and then Friday I get to be mom.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Heather]

Which is great. I love that.

[Amy]

So, you have three days off a week normally.

[Heather]

Yes. Yep. I had to think.

I had to do the math there. Yes, three days.

[Amy]

Okay. No, just to give everyone listening a little background on you. As far as your personality type, do you know what you are in the DISC or the Enneagram to give people an idea?

[Heather]

Yeah. So, Myers-Briggs, I’m an INFJ. So, I can go back and forth from being pretty emotionally sensitive to being very logical and reasonable. I bounce back and forth quite a bit and I tend to be introverted and yet I love people. It’s an interesting mix.

I love people, but at the end of the day, I need a little bit of quiet time to refresh, which over time I’ve learned more and more that I need to listen to that. It’s tricky when there’s that compassion to be with people and to love on people and I will burn to a crisp if I don’t listen to that introverted part of having some quiet time to rest. The Enneagram, I’m a perfectionist.

Yep. Like straight perfectionist. There are no, what is it, the wings on the Enneagram?

No, none of that. Just straight perfectionism.

[Amy]

So, what number is that?

[Heather]

It’s a one.

[Amy]

It’s a one.

It’s a one. Okay. Interesting.

And what about, I’m always curious about love languages. Do you know what your top two love languages are? If someone were to look at 5lovelanguages.com.

[Heather]

Yes. Quality time is a really strong one, which is kind of great as a therapist, right? That’s a good quality to have in your therapist.

I genuinely am happy to be here. And the second one is probably physical touch.

[Amy]

Okay. So, you’re a hugger.

[Heather]

Yep. Hug. Yep. Pat on the back.

[Amy]

So, I’m curious, especially now that you’ve become a mom in the last year and a mother of twins, as you are mixing being the professional with being family woman, what would you say are your one or two biggest challenges or pain points in your life that you’ve had to work through now in the last year having a career in family?

[Heather]

That’s a really good question. I was so excited to be a mom. We went through an infertility journey prior to being parents. So, the expectation that I had coming into motherhood and being able to balance being mom and running a business and seeing clients, what I thought that would look like is actually different than what it is.

And so, I think one of the pain points, so to speak, is self-compassion, especially being a perfectionist. I have the desire to do it all right, right now.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Heather]

That this idea of it being a process or a journey is hard for me. I want to be able to do it really well and not have to do that trial and error. And that’s not life, right?

It’s not. It’s part of being human. And so, holding a sense of self-compassion of like, okay, you know what?

Maybe I double booked myself today. I can hold compassion for that. Or maybe the house is not going to be, you know, white glove clean.

And perhaps that’s okay. I think it’s been a good opportunity for me to embrace really being human and to perhaps even try to hold grace and compassion and love for myself the way God sees me too. I think prior to having kids, it’s like, yep, God loves me just the way I am.

And meanwhile, INFJ and perfectionist is like, and all my ducks are in a row and my calendar looks beautiful. And don’t even get me started on my spreadsheet for tax season. It’s beautiful.

And the truth is all of that is great. And God loves me when I’m maybe disorganized, when I’ve had two hours of sleep and I have a full day ahead of me. There’s still love and compassion that’s there. So I think that’s been a pain point and a good growing point too.

And certainly a journey that I’m still on.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Amy]

Yes. I love that. That’s great.

Are there any specific life or organization hacks that you’ve learned along the way in the past year, especially, or maybe it was even before having children that have really simplified life for you or helped you to stay ahead of the game to feel like, you know, your head is not just above water, but you’re in a comfortable place.

[Heather]

Oh, that’s a great question too. You know, what comes to my mind is actually the struggles that came in 2020.

[Amy]

Oh, okay.

[Heather]

You know, I, by nature tend to be pretty organized. If there’s something on my to-do list, it’s written down, not just in my head, because I’m like planning ahead of myself. If you’ve ever had moments when maybe, and I’m hoping this doesn’t just happen to me, where I’m like, oh, who got this all organized? Oh, that was me. I did that when I wasn’t even thinking about it, like it’s already done. You know, like that’s always been there.

But 2020 really taught me something important. You know, it was a time when I think we were all perhaps thrown a bit off. Everything was different.

Everything was shifting and changing and we had to quickly learn how to adapt. As an introvert, there was parts of that I was kind of okay with. My world went from being very social to all of a sudden, oh, I could be quiet for a second and really think.

It taught me that I need to prioritize things. You know, that it can’t just be getting things done and accomplishing them, because there’s always going to be a big list. I think it’s so easy to get spread thin.

Then I know for myself, like if I’m spread thin, I don’t feel great about the work that I’m doing. I might be able to get a lot done, but at the end of the day, I’m tired and I don’t feel a great sense of accomplishment. It’s the quality piece.

I think as far as a life hack, I think it’s what’s important to you and are you doing things that are outside of that strength area? Are there places maybe you need to delegate to let some things go and being okay with that? It’s okay just to sink into what is my grace place maybe for this season and to really spend time talking to the Lord about what that’s supposed to look like.

[Amy]

Did you find after 2020 and coming back to work, were there any things that because of that break you let go of when you came back that you realized, oh, I really maybe was doing this and realized I didn’t enjoy doing this or don’t need to be doing this, maybe should be delegating? Were there changes you made that that break in that season actually really helped you a lot specifically? Can you point out any one or two?

[Heather]

Yeah, it was my home life. Prior to 2020, every weekend had something booked. We had things going all of the time and John and I were happily tired. We had all these really great relationships, but when were we on a date night? Oh, that’s right. That’s important. We need to prioritize that and really being able to think about within our home, what does that need to look like?

Do we need to have a couple days that are just sacred? Do we need to have time that’s really just for us? When is it okay to say no?

It was my home life that was impacted and it was great.

[Amy]

Good.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Amy]

That’s great.

I hear a number of women that I talk with say that by the time the end of the week rolls around, they feel like they have nothing left to give. Specifically, women who are in professional roles where they’re giving out a lot during the week. The one thing I’ve found being in ministry myself and talking to many women is there is a big difference between medicating when we feel empty versus replenishing when we feel empty.

For example, many career people today are just trying to medicate their emptiness through maybe alcohol or drugs or shopping or watching TV or whatever the case may be, sometimes illegitimate relationships. It can be all kinds of things that people medicate with. They’re doing things that they think will fill the void, but it actually doesn’t fill the void.

I’m curious, what do you do to replenish you personally after a long day that’s actually replenishing, not just a medicating type thing, but what actually leaves you filled afterwards? Are there any certain things that you do for that?

[Heather]

One thought that I have–and being a therapist, I’m going to answer your question with a question in true therapist form: why wait till the end of the week? That seems almost like responding to crisis versus… I think when we’re in positions of leadership, I like to think of it a little bit like a cup.

I think a lot of people have heard a similar metaphor, but when we’re pouring out, pouring out, when we get to the end of the week, of course we’re going to feel dry. Crispy critters. Why wait till you’re a crispy critter to replenish?

I think it’s the things that we do every day. I think it’s being mindful, being aware of what do I need today and then being intentional with that. For example, when the weather is nice in Minnesota, so like three days out of the year, I really enjoy gardening.

I love being outside. I love to garden. I remember there was a time a few years back, I had had just a really busy day.

It was unexpectedly heavy and I thought to myself, this is going to be a great time for me to get some self-caring. I’m going to go garden. I was outside and my hands were in the dirt and I was working and I was ruminating on my day.

There came a point where I just paused and sat back on the grass and went, what am I doing? I’m doing this thing. I’m gardening, but my head’s back here.

I’m not being in the present. I think one, and this is what I really try to do and I’m human and fallible with this, but the things that I do every day to replenish, I’ve got to be intentional about it. I’ve got to get my head in that space because if I’m doing some, whether it’s quality time with the Lord, whether it’s gardening, whether it’s playing with my kids, going for a walk, it’s not going to make a difference if I’m not in the right headspace when I’m doing it.

[Amy]

That’s a great point. What do you do to get yourself in the headspace? Is it just an intentional thought?

Okay, my head is going to be here, or is there anything you do especially to get yourself in that space? Like with myself, I say that because I’m a very music-oriented person and so if I’m having trouble getting into being in the present, I’ll sometimes put my really fun Caribbean-style instrumental music on to just get my brain out of where it was and into where I’m at. Do you have anything you do to just kind of transition yourself?

[Heather]

Oh gosh, I’m going to have to try the Caribbean-style music thing. That sounds wonderful. I’m usually just noticing when my, I think part of it just ties in with the work that I do, but if my jaw is really tense or I got a knot in my stomach or whatever it is and I can be a little bit more aware of like, oh hold on a second, my head’s not here and catch some of those thoughts as they’re dashing away and then just bringing it back. But I practice a lot of mindfulness in the work that I do, so I feel like my brain knows how to do that even if I have to bring it back a hundred times in a minute.

It’s like exercising that part of my brain to come back.

[Amy]

Do you have anything you specifically do when you’re at work? Because like you mentioned, why wait till the end of the week after the day? So let’s talk about, what about the woman listening who she’s working a 12, 14, or maybe even 16-hour shift?

Maybe she doesn’t even have time to hardly get away for lunch or maybe there’s a quick break. For example, a nurse or a doctor, they’re in between patients walking through the hallway. Even in your professional role, what would you recommend to get yourself in a replenishment state in this crazy day you may be having? Is there anything they can do for that?

[Heather]

I don’t know if I can say this on your podcast, so feel welcome to edit this out, but I want to just validate too how hard that is. When there’s a million things going on, sometimes I will have the thought like, I don’t have time for even a minute of self-care, where I can literally think of days when every single minute of my day is accounted for, and it’s a lot of pressure. I can think of lunch breaks where I am eating lunch, pumping, and answering back emails all at the same time.

Really multitasking. Thank goodness for the lock on my office door. I feel like it’s been a challenge at times to remind myself like, really Heather? You don’t have a minute to slow down? I’m challenging that. I have to challenge that for myself. Whether it’s just taking one minute to put lotion on my hands and just close my eyes and just notice the lotion on my hands.

One minute. If I can’t spare a minute, then my priorities are off. It goes back to that, you know, stretching ourself too thin, and I think as humans, we do that.

[Amy]

Definitely.

[Heather]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amy]

That’s a great idea. We’re trying. Put lotion on the hands.

[Heather]

Be mindful of it.

[Amy]

I love it. Is there anything you do out of curiosity during the week as preventative maintenance in an effort to still have energy by the weekend? Are you mindful of going to bed at a certain time or any energy-givers at night to help replenish you just so that you aren’t on empty by Friday?

[Heather]

Really, truly, bedtime routine is huge. I mean, especially with my little guys, getting a full night’s sleep is still touch and go at times. They both had very different sleep rhythms and things that they need for sleep.

So going to bed on time is a huge one. Routine in general. So after my boys were born, I don’t know what part of me thought this was a great idea.

It came from a good heart place, but it threw me and it’s been like incredible for self-care since. When my boys were born, it was like, I can’t wait to be a mom and I just want to learn all about them. And I was like, forget morning and bedtime routine.

Every two hours, whatever routine they need, every two hours, that’s what we’re going to do. And I got burned out really, really fast. And it wasn’t until maybe like a month in, I looked at my husband and I said, we’ve been doing this backwards.

Our whole life is whatever is going on in the next two hours, whatever the babies need, we actually need a routine. And there’s something about having a morning routine, having an evening routine that is centering. And it, for me, it prevents burnout.

And part of that morning routine is having time with the Lord. I can emotionally and physically feel the difference on days when I have time with the Lord and on days when it gets missed.

[Amy]

It’s a grounding for sure.

[Heather]

It is. And there’s grace on days when it gets missed. But even with that though, there’s something about I’m taking time just to have quiet time with the Lord, just for the relationship, just to spend time with him.

Oh my gosh, it can take a busy, stressful day. And there’s like a different kind of peace that comes with it.

[Amy]

That’s so true. Yeah, no, I like to use the illustration of it’s like a lamp. And you, of course, want light in your lamp, but you have to plug it into the wall and having that time to read the word or pray, meditate in the morning on scripture, whatever it may be for you, just to plug that lamp into the wall.

It’s your time to get connected and just gives you fuel for the day. So true. How do you keep a check on your relationships?

Is there something you look at, like a check engine light going off that you may see in your husband, probably not your kids as much at age one, but that just might be like, oh, they’re not getting enough time with me? What do you have that you look for as like an, oh, I need to be focusing a little bit more on this area, anything like that?

[Heather]

Yeah. You know, I think every relationship dynamic, it looks a little bit different for John and I, the way that we talk to each other, the way that we interact is telltale.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Heather]

Right. Like when we’re just, I work with a lot of teenagers, so they’d probably call it cringy, I think is the term now, right? Where it’s like just really sweet and, you know, “thank you, honey.” “Can you grab that for me, sweetheart?” Right. Like the, words of the terms of endearment, all of that is all present.

And so when it’s just like, “hey, could you grab that for me?” It’s kind of like, “wait, what? Are you talking to me? Remember, I am ‘sweetheart.’ Honey!” And like, that’s looking for the words. Yeah.

The mushy, gushy stuff. Okay. Yup.

Because John and I are a really good team. I mean, we started out as dance partners, right? Right.

As a team. So we can work really well as a team, but if like the mushy, gushy stuff isn’t quite there. Okay.

We need a date night.

[Amy]

Okay. Good way to keep a check on things.

[Heather]

Yes.

[Amy]

Everyone is different. Like you said, there’s little signs with everything. Can you tell us anything you do specifically in the home to make connection with your spouse or kids?

And I realize your kids are young. That really seems like, oh, that’s a big win with them. I really got into their heart.

Maybe even considering the working woman, maybe something small or quick that you do that it’s just a connection. Like, that was a win in my family.

[Heather]

Yeah. So I really love to try to make my family laugh. I have the time I’m cracking myself up as I’m doing it.

And so it just, it, it, it creates an atmosphere in our home, right? And like, if we’re having fun together, we can have serious things that we do for work and passions that were, you know, really centered around and we’ve got to it out with fun. I think that a huge part about family life is having fun together. So I’ll, you know, I have a plethora of puns. If there’s an opportunity for a pun, I’m going to pull that out. With my little guys, right now it’s a lot of vocal sounds, which I will not do on the podcast, but I will share a little funny story if that’s okay. So they’re both in their high chairs one morning and they’re eating their breakfast. And I don’t know what got into me, but I burst into song and dance and I kind of stopped at the very end of my song and I did jazz hands and I just locked eyes with both of them, like looking at Will, looking at Gabe, jazz hands. And it was probably a good 10 seconds, which felt like an eternity holding this position of jazz hands.

And Gabe kind of wrinkles his forehead and then really slowly starts to clap his hands. Like “if I clap, will she stop whatever she’s doing?”

[Amy]

He knew you were looking for applause, right?

[Heather]

It was something. Yep. It worked. Yep.

[Amy]

Oh, they are so cute.

[Heather]

They are sweet.

[Amy]

They are adorable.

Do you have any moments that stand out to you from your past as an experience, maybe a win or a crisis, that helped you get better perspective about the way you think about work and family that caused you to win more in your relationships or succeed in taking time to replenish? I think of my own situation when my husband, his mother went home to be with the Lord and we were living in Texas at the time. And for us, that was a real aha moment. We want our kids to be raised around grandparents. And she checked out sooner than what we had anticipated. And in that we decided to make the move from Texas back to our home state of Minnesota. We knew that we were called to plant a church and were directed to do that here, but it seemed a large part of that decision was we wanted our kids to be raised around grandparents and around family. And we just realized how important that is after her passing prematurely. And so for us, it was more of a crisis. Sometimes for some people it’s a win, but is there anything that’s been a, just a game changer for you in decision-making and causing you to do things in a way you like doing better now?

[Heather]

You know, when I was, when I was a little kid, I don’t remember how old I was, somewhere around five or six, I remember sitting on my floor and I had a bunch of change. I counted out a hundred pennies and I looked at it and I remember thinking it’s kind of like every year of my life, potentially. And I remember looking at going like, that’s not very many. That’s not much.

It doesn’t look like a lot of pennies on the floor. I think from a young age, really feeling motivated to make the most of it. And you know, my mom, I’m really close to her. She survived breast cancer. She had a very close call with a motor vehicle accident.

[Amy]

And when you say close call, I remember that happening because I know your mother and it was close call as in she was hit by a semi on a highway and the police didn’t even call the ambulance to come get her because they were so certain whoever was in the car would be dead. And when the workers were cleaning up the car, they realized she was still alive. That’s how serious it was.

[Heather]

That’s so close. So, so close. My former boss Sarah passed away from ovarian cancer and that’s why I’m in the position that I’m in because she unfortunately didn’t make it. I’ve had co-workers who have lost spouses too soon, like barely into marriage, um, like just significant loss. And I think that combined with just this, I’ve always had like this, um, almost like a passion/pressure to like make the most of it, make the most of it. And I don’t want to look back and go, I wish I had spent more time with my kids and my husband, even though I’m really passionate about, um, the work that I do. And I’m fiercely passionate about loving on my clinicians, like helping them to feel refreshed in the work that they do is, I think it’s, I’m as passionate about that as I am my clients. But above all, I want to be a good mom.

I want to be a good wife. I want to make the most of that time. So, yeah, I think it’s those daily decisions, right? When I think about juggling work and family, both can be important, both can have a priority. And I think it’s, it’s figuring out how can I shift gears so I can be present. When I’m at work, I’m present there. And when I’m at home, being present there, does that answer the question?

[Amy]

It does. And I love that because actually, um, I don’t know if you ever do this, but a number of years I’d heard about asking the Lord in prayer time for a word. What word is supposed to direct your year? And actually the word that He gave me this year was “present” as in be present with what you’re doing. So I’ve really been focusing on that. So yes, that really hit the target with me as you were talking about that. So out of curiosity, if you could go back and talk to the 20 or 25 year old you, what would you tell the younger version of you, Heather, that would have saved you pain or made the journey more enjoyable and less stressful that you wish you would have known back then with your experience that you have now?

[Heather]

I think maybe it’s the self-compassion again, because I think back to different seasons of my life. It feels like there’s almost like a theme to what God was teaching me in each, each season and like being compassionate with yourself, with myself in that learning. So, you know, I I’ve seen that in my life.

Like God has always been teaching me something, preparing me and growing me for the next stage of things, but being compassionate, especially as a perfectionist, I want to get it right the first time. And it’s okay to be compassionate with yourself as in learning too.

[Amy]

That’s good. Before we started recording with everyone today, you and I were in a discussion.

[Heather]

It was lovely.

[Amy]

And I said to you, Oh, we should have this recorded. I want to go back to what we were talking about just briefly before we started this recording, so all of our listeners can hear. We were in a discussion talking about, with Heather’s profession, working with people who are really challenged emotionally and going through hard things at work. And we were especially talking about police officers and challenges they go through, which is an area that Heather is trained to specialize in working with people in the police profession. People who maybe have gone through major, major crisis and just need to be worked through whatever trauma they went through. And as we were talking about that and talking about people, whether it’s someone in the police department or someone at the top of the medical profession, maybe a doctor who’s the head of their department, whatever it may be, someone in that high up capacity that so many people are depending on them. And you made an interesting comment about that. Can you repeat that?

[Heather]

Yeah. So when you are the rescue swimmer, you’re in a role of leadership where you’re helping other people, who rescues the rescue swimmer? I think that there can almost be this myth that is carried by those in leadership that who’s, who’s going to help me, you know, and it’s a tricky spot as a leader, right? Because we’re trying to hold being genuine.

We’re being human. And at the same time, we maybe want to let our team know like everything’s okay. Everything’s handled and there can be subtle pressure, but that pressure can be, I think, suffocating.

It’s a lot of pressure to hold. And how do we navigate that? How do we hold that?

How do we be human and be able to cope well, and perhaps find humbleness to find people and connect with people when we’re not doing okay.

[Amy]

And another thing we were talking about before we started is that in the past, instilled in different people maybe in the way we were raised or different work cultures, sometimes there’s almost this feeling in the leader of I’m the leader, so I have to be perfect or I have to have everything right in my life. And I can’t let anyone know that I need help.

And that is not a good place to be as a leader. It’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to go to a counselor when you need someone to talk to.

Heather, you know, there’s a couple that we have speak at this church occasionally who are missionaries to Peru named Danny and Stephanie. And Danny and Stephanie were talking with us about, they have a good friend who is a counselor at a place where many high up athletes, actors and actresses, and people who are in politics go. That’s a very confidential place.

And there are numerous places like that throughout the country, I’m sure. But just having that, I think people need to hear who are in top leadership. It’s okay to talk to someone, it’s okay to get help, it’s okay to go to a counselor.

We all need to talk things through at times. And that’s okay. None of us are superhuman.

[Heather]

Right. And hopefully there’s comfort knowing that none of us have it perfectly figured out.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Amy]

And there’s a peace in having someone to talk to and just kind of work through things.

And there’s a healing that comes with that. You were even talking before we started about one of the methods you’re trained in to help people who have been through trauma. And I asked you from start to finish, because you said after people have finished this trauma treatment that they do not have PTSD.

And I asked how long does that take? And you said normally it’s about 16 weeks for most people. And so just knowing there’s resolution for things.

There are people who can walk people through the hard things because we all go through hard things in life. And it’s important to have pit stops.

[Heather]

Yeah. And I think sometimes when we talk it out loud we become aware of maybe the things that are keeping us stuck or spinning our wheels or the things that are maybe intensifying emotion. And often we’ve got beliefs that are running the show. Beliefs of like, I have to have it all together, or if other people knew what I was going through, they wouldn’t want to follow me anymore or whatever those myths are, our emotions can make them seem true. And often they aren’t.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And so being able to talk it out loud helps to kind of recognize that, to uncover what things are running the ship and be able to perhaps challenge it in a different way.

[Amy]

Mm-hmm. And for anyone listening, just so you know, I will have Heather’s counseling practice information in the show notes, if any of you are interested in looking at that, because she does have a whole team of staff that help people through things. And so of course, we always encourage people, Shaun and I being pastors, you know, first place we want to go is the Word, Yes. That’s something we always encourage people plug into God each morning, but there are with certain situations and a number of things that people go through in life, times when you need someone to talk to, and the Lord works through counselors. There are many counselors who are trained very well and know how to do that.

I know not everyone is, but there are ones like Heather that are very good at what they do. And so we appreciate that so much. If there was only one book other than the Bible that you could recommend to people to read who have busy lives and want a strong home life too, or just a book that’s really helped you, blessed you, ministered to you.

What would that be? Any specific recommendation?

[Heather]

That’s a really good one. You know, there are so many good ones out there, but big shout out to Terr Savelle Foy. I don’t think there’s a book of hers that I’ve read that I haven’t absolutely loved and recommended to other people.

[Amy]

Really? Which one specifically? I’ve read, I think, almost all of her books, if not all of them. So which one I’m curious.

[Heather]

I really like the one, The Five Things Successful People Do Before 8am.

[Amy]

That is a great book.

[Heather]

Such a good one.

[Amy]

Great. I love that. And also, do you have a favorite scripture or a life scripture or maybe even just a quote of some sort that helps put you over when things are hard in life, helps stabilize you, or maybe just encourages you?

[Heather]

I feel like it depends on the day. That’s what Pinterest is for, right? Psalm 23.

It’s talking about not needing to want. The peace and the calm.

[Amy]

I love that.

[Heather]

Psalm 23.

[Amy]

I have been meditating that when reading it daily and I love that. It is awesome. Well, thank you so much for being with us today, Heather.

We appreciate you sharing your wisdom with all of us.

[Heather]

We’re all in this together, learning from each other.

[Amy]

Yes.

And like I said, I will share Heather’s information in the show notes so you can check her out there and her practice that she has. So thank you for being with us today.

[Heather]

Thank you.